Brand Design Masters Podcast

The Brand Design Masters Podcast
with host Philip VanDusen

Episode 150
The Power of Brand Alignment with Brandon Coleman, Jr.
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Philip VanDusen: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show on this episode. I'm thrilled to welcome Brandon Coleman, Jr. Who's a true legend in the world of branding and strategic consulting with over five decades of experience? Brandon has spearheaded thousands of brand alignment engagements across diverse industries launched a successful strategic branding firm And has now authored an amazing book, Brand on the Hidden Power of Brand Alignment.

An entrepreneur, speaker and now author, Brandon has a gift for cutting through the noise to amplify potential, whether for individuals or for businesses. His straight talk and all in approach have inspired countless entrepreneurs and leaders to achieve their dreams. And today we're going to dive into his story career.

Explore the power of alignment in branding and uncover actionable insights. You can use to build your business and personal brand. And with that, I'd like to welcome Brandon.

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: Thanks Phillip. I appreciate it. And as we say in the branding presentation world, it's time to stop. I can't get any better than that introduction.

You are, you are, you are so very kind. Thank you.

Philip VanDusen: Well, why don't you just share a little bit about your journey and what's inspired you to write brand on.

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: When I sold my firm 25 years ago, it's hard to even say that when I sold my firm 25 years ago, as I walked out the door, my right arm, a lady named Debbie grabbed me and she said, go write the book.

It was my, literally my last day in the office or walking out, closing the door. She said, go write the book before New York comes in and takes over. You go write your book. 25 years later, I did that. It's it's been quite a culmination. It's been brewing for a long, long time. And, and I think what got compelled me, I mean, yes, I had a story at that time and I had client stories and like everybody out there in the, that's done well in the marketing and branding agency world, I had stories to tell.

But, but that wasn't enough for me. I mean, stories are cool and I got some really cool stories in here. They're fun. Some might be a little bit unbelievable, but they're real and entrepreneurs will enjoy them. They're not fortune 500s. They're not big companies. They're, they're people, entrepreneurs who needed that leg up and that one piece of brand alignment that made them soar.

So, but again, the stories weren't the reason I wrote it. I wrote it because I just continue to have this belief as I aged that I have a god given purpose and that's helping others achieve theirs and so this is a philanthropic knowledge transfer so you say well why didn't you just tell the stories when you sold the firm the stories.

Aren't all of it, what, what is become important to me two years ago when I began writing was what has happened to brand alignment currently in the current marketplace. So many people are so focused on tools and activation that, that they miss brand alignment. There are so few truly aligned brands that are very, very, very well done, whether it's a restaurant, a hotel an engineering firm, a law firm, a coffee shop some of your clients, Phillip, are just outstanding brands.

And that's because you've gotten your arms around, but there are so many brands that, that they can still be good brands, but they're not aligned brands. And, and. You know, that, that, that is much more than the graphics, much more than the marketing. It's, putting your arms around and enveloping the customer experience, the journey and tying that all in.

It's taking the customer experience and, and making the reality greater than the expectation, not just meeting. Expectations, but greater than expectations. So when, when I finally realized what's going on in the marketplace and, and quite frankly, got frustrated with it with watching others and people come to me and, and I'm not doing the consulting gig anymore, but except for very rare major projects you know, I kept looking at people just trying to answer their question.

I was so frustrated about what I was seeing and what, what I've seen. Are signing off people doing their tactics or doing their their implementation piece without any respect to the overall brand and when you get it in alignment, it can be You know 80 90 100 times more powerful than it is just being a good brand Just being a good brand, but being an aligned brand, and I know that means a lot hard to get out in one sentence, and I am happy to break it down for you in any way you wish.

Philip VanDusen: Yeah, I think that would be great because I'm sure that a lot of people think about alignment and branding in different ways. And I know that there's, you know, there's external alignment. So your mission, your purpose as a company and how that manifests itself through your products and services into your customers.

But then there's also internal. Alignment, right? So that internal culture and how you educate your employees and the people within your company to what the culture is so they can embody it. Right? So why don't you, why don't you talk about for you how you look at alignment?

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: Well, let's let's pick an example.

It's easier since we're keyed to entrepreneurs. Let's, let's pick an example. It's easy for an entrepreneur to relate to because we all eat out. So let's take a restaurant experience. It is this this example is in the book in much greater detail where an entrepreneur can actually line item it go through it Check it off But but when when you first hear about that brand is when your brand engagement starts whether it's through social media an advertisement in a newspaper Whether a friend tells you about it, or whether you just drove by and saw it under construction That's when that restaurant first enters Your psyche, that's when it first enters your thought process of, hmm, wonder what that is.

What are they about? What are they good at? And then, and then you find different ways of learning, whether it's going to a website for you, go there, going to, to Google it, or, or you search them out on social media, or you, or, you know, someone that, that is part of the construction process. You ask them, you know, a friend that may be familiar with what's happening in that area or that neighborhood.

Well, that's, that's the first part, that first impression, That they lay upon you in whatever way that you find them begins that journey. It begins that customer experience journey and that's just the start and then then you go one day you make a reservation or you just Go and you show up and you drive into that parking spot and that makes an impression The signage you see as you enter, as you drive in, and find that parking spot, and the quality of the parking area, and the lot, makes a difference in your psyche on how you enter that brand.

Then you get out of your car, you walk up to the brand, and you open the door. And the feel of that door is part of the brand. And then you're greeted, hopefully. At many restaurants these days, you're not, but at a great one, you're greeted and that greeting is part of the brand and then how they seat you and where they seat you and how the seats feel and how the tables feel, how clean it was.

Hopefully it's not still wet from being wiped down and hopefully it got wiped down. Then it's the presentation of the menu or the, or, or, or their service of water or bread or whatever it is that they do next. And those are just, again, The beginnings of that journey and all of those things need to be in alignment.

And you know, I love, love telling one of my stories of a fried chicken fast food restaurant that was just the best fried, fried chicken around in the South, my friend. That's a big deal in the South. Our, our fried chicken meals are important to us. And so on occasion, I'd go in there and it was always just knocked out of the park, a fabulous brand.

Then one day I walked in and I smelled something weird. And I'm like, well, what is going on? What, what, that smells like fish. They said, well, we've decided to extend our menu and we now are selling fried fish as well. And I was done because the thought of a fried fish going in the grease near my fried chicken wasn't good Even though I knew they used separate frying bats it was just the image and the perception of that brand and the odor the aroma when I walked in the room Because of all the senses that a brand engages Everything from vision to sight, to smell, to taste, to touch, all of them, enter your psyche, all of them.

And so, a complete brand alignment is when not only the graphics, the great stuff that firms like yourself develop, and the message, and the wording, and what you're about, but how it's presented, and then how it's activated, and then how it's actually delivered. I believe you and I talked on my podcast one day, and I shared with you that a brand is a promise wrapped in a delivery.

And that's been my definition since 1980. And that encompasses a lot of brand is a promise wrapped in a delivery. So when you think about that listeners in your areas, your arenas. Whatever it may be, I don't care what business you're in. I haven't found one. It doesn't work yet, except maybe government.

But if you, if

you play to that brand in a, as a promise that you have made to that customer. Then you can see how the alignment and every step of that engagement must parlay to make the brand come to life.

Philip VanDusen: Do you feel like there was any pivotal moment? I mean, you've had a long career and it's very rare that I talked to people who have careers that are considerably longer than mine and so a kudos for that surviving it could be I'm sure that.

I'm sure that you've had some pivotal moments in the early part of your career where you really had that light bulb moment, that epiphany, where you realized that that holistic experience of brand was so much more important than those individual kind of pieces. Is there any point in your career that you could pinpoint where that was kind of an aha moment for you?

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: It's a great question. And what what marketing and branding professionals need to learn and what entrepreneurs need to know is that one moment. Is when you decide that truth will rule when you can get a client to truth You will do your best work. Not all agencies, not all counselors, not all marketing support people are able to do that because it takes a huge amount of courage.

And one day, early on, I think I was 24 when I started my firm, so I, it was early. I was 25 years old, I believe, and I had to look a client in the face after listening, you know, he's writing me checks. But he's telling me how everything's going to be with their brand. It was just so dead wrong. And I knew he was hiding himself and I won't go into the details, but he was, he was, he was hiding a family issue that prevented their company from being truly great.

And I don't know if it was just my young sprightness at the time, but I manned up on him and just said, you know, I'm just not going to be able to work for you. Cause you're not telling me the truth. You're not telling me what you're hiding back behind that wall that is going to prevent me from making a brand for creating a brand for you that I can line up perfectly up and down the sphere and deliver the growth, the exponential growth that you're after.

You're playing games with me. And he looked right at me. And say, you've got balls. And I said, well, thank you. And he goes, let's talk. And he took me to lunch and he shared, and when he did, and he opened up, it allowed me into the caverns of, of his mind and the things he had been bearing to allow. Me and my firm to ultimately be able to direct and guide them in a brand that could be aligned That was dealing in authentic truth that was genuine to its customers at every single touch point And I would say that's the point and whether you find that when you're 50 years old or or 24 25 years old That moment of truth if your client We'll deal in truth.

Or if you're an entrepreneur, deal in truth with yourself or deal in truth with your counselor. You know, Phillips, one of the guys I recommend you hire, you go hire him, tell him the truth about your brand, show him the weaknesses because it is within those weaknesses that you will find the strength to make a power brand and then to be able to align everything.

To make it work.

Philip VanDusen: Yeah, I think that that's actually one of the one of the hardest things about marketing these days for companies is that it used to be the old days, right? We're old guys in the old days. Marketing used to be much more of a facade. It used to be more of an image. It used to be more of something that was kind of like this veil of Projection that, that companies gave people.

And now with social media and the amount of transparency, that's possible for people to access and get to brands, the need for brands to be truthful, to be transparent, to show their weaknesses, to show their frailties, their humanness, right. Is so much more important now, but that's one of those things that terrifies companies.

Right. How can we show our frailties? How can we show, you know, our day to day, the messy middle of what it is that we do, but that's today. What really magnetizes brands for people, right? It makes them feel human. It makes them develop a connection to them. But companies find that absolutely terrifying. Do you find that to be true?

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: Absolutely. They always have. Again, I say brand alignment is timeless. It's it's in the book. It says timeless wisdom. And the reason is because some people go, God, I don't need a 70 year old guy writing me a 50 year book. He doesn't know anything about what's going on today. Well, the reality is I've, I've stayed highly engaged at number one and number two, brand alignment is timeless.

The values and virtues of an aligned brand have not changed. The tools have changed. The tools change daily. Now, you know, another thing that has changed is many companies, whether they be a small coffee shop or a corporation, stood behind the brand of their their business identity. That is no longer as much the case because people now lift up the brand identity to see the personal brand.

Who's running that company and what are they all about? Used to be, if I was going to meet Philip and I didn't know about you, but somebody said, man, that Philip, that Philip Van Dusen, he's an amazing guy. You need to meet him. Well, I'd get excited and I'd go have lunch with you, or I'd come meet with you and I'd get to know you.

And that allowed you to kind of control a narrative to some degree and, and tell me who you were and what you were about. And you put your best foot forward. Well, nowadays people don't have that opportunity. Very rarely do you get to meet them in person before the image of your brand is set in stone.

If I'm having a lunch with Phillip Van Dusen and I've never met him, I'm Googling him on the way to the restaurant. And boom, that first thing that pops up, whether it's a Google search or his website or a social piece, boom, your image is started. And if it's not good right up front, you may be spending lunch digging out of it just to get to even so that personal brand has so much value and so much authority.

And what leads now in a company brand, especially again, to, to our market, our listeners, entrepreneurs, to business leaders, entrepreneurs, 501c3s, people, those intermediate enterprises that small intermediate enterprises that, that lead their company. And sometimes I'll hear guys and ladies say, well, that's different.

That's business. And that's personal. I go wrong. And business is personal in, in 2025 business is personal. And if you play it that way, you can win.

Philip VanDusen: I totally agree, and I think that the, you know, the digital ecosystem that we swim in now makes, makes it easy to be impersonal, right? It makes it really easy for you to distance yourself, but the converse of that is, it makes it absolutely easy to be as personalized as you can get and to feed people, you know, show people what the

behind the curtain picture is

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: You're absolutely spot on

Philip VanDusen: One of the things that I want to talk about is leadership and. You know the old saying the fish stinks from the head right so how do you when you're speaking to leaders about the importance of brand alignment leaders have to be on board they have to drink the kool aid because that's where culture is gonna emanate from and so when you speak to leaders how do you kind of how do you communicate that to them.

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: Well, it's I start, I start with truth. I start with, start with the trust superstars, leaders, whether they're in athletics or whether they're in business have to deal in truth. They have to put their talent, their leadership right up front because it's the only way people can follow. And if you're going to be an entrepreneur superstar, it's essential that you're the, you're the floor leader.

You're the point guard. You're the quarterback. You can't dump off. Brand alignment to marketing. It won't work. Number one. Number two, great brand alignment. Great brands are never created by committee. Never. Doesn't happen. Has to have leadership. You have to make the plays. You have to call the audibles.

You have to do the things to lead. And you have to lead with integrity. Winning, winning in brand alignment, winning with a big brand, taking a brand, and you may be hitting a 90 or 100 percent of its potential requires all in leadership, all in leadership. They have to model their vision. You know, companies come up with a vision.

We have to model it. You have to live it. You have to love it. You have to be able to repeat it. One of my favorite things to do is get a new engagement and a guy will tell me, Oh, here's our vision on the wall. And I'll go, I'll look him in the eyes. I go, okay, don't look at the wall. Tell me your vision.

And in my experience, I would say that only happens about 10 percent of the time, can they actually repeat the vision or the mission if they've got a mission or they got core values up on the wall, if you can't handily repeat them or your employee team can't, your team members can't. Pull them right off the top of their head.

They can't embody them. They can't live them. They can't walk down the hall and read those every day. That doesn't work. They have to embody it. It has to be simple. It has to be short. It has to be meaningful. It has to be impactful. That, again, takes leadership. If you're going to walk that walk and talk that talk, you've got To do it from the leadership position because if the head of that fish thinks that whole organization stinks and there's no marketing team alive That will resuscitate that fish when his head's cut off

Philip VanDusen: You and I have been around a while and we know we have some Accumulated experience and perspective on how markets change and one of the things that I think both of us are seeing now is that the market is changing in terms of in technologies impact on it just dramatically right now and particularly the tsunami of AI that everyone is trying to figure out.

And everyone is trying to incorporate into their products and services, whether it deserves to have a I in it or not. There's so much change going on right now. How? What are the challenges that you see in the digital world with the influx of a I and what that's meaning? To brands or they're having to react to it.

What are the challenges for brands and in remaining aligned when there is this constant influx of change

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: Again, I'm disappointed. We only have 80 years experience between the two of us on this podcast And what I hope we bring especially to the gen z ers is is the magic and the power of consistency And brand alignment, and it is important, no matter how adept you are at the technology or the AI.

And let's talk about why that is, so that young people can learn, entrepreneurs can learn why that's important. AI is a super powerful marketing tool. It is just going to be the bomb. It's going to be great. But you got to put some, you got to put some training wheels on it, and you got to put some guideposts on the sides of the road.

Like, for example, one of my providers, I won't tell you who, because I get in a lot of trouble, because I'm very engaged with them right now. But I laugh my ass off when every single email I get from them, regardless of which department of the company is writing me, starts off with, Brandon, I hope this finds you well.

Are you shitting me? If you were, if I was your client and I'm spending in six digits with you, you better know damn well I'm doing well, or you better know that I'm not. You have to put that at the front end of every email. Do you really believe they're writing that? No, they're a eyeing it in because it doesn't matter what employee from what department it starts off the same way And it's so disingenuine It's so cold and it automatically sets me to read the rest of the email like it's bullshit, too And that's just just the way it is because it's cold and it's sterile.

So one of the things that ai does so well Is it repeats things that it hears and it repeats things that it learns It's up to you to make sure that you keep it fresh Whether it's your prompt engineering or whether it's in how you edit what it spits out. You need to keep it fresh I don't care if it's a quick post.

It's a quick deal on instagram or tiktok or twitter on x excuse me Doesn't matter to me It needs to be in alignment. So make sure the words it's picking are right. Make sure you coach it well. And, and, and the second biggest problem we face is that a lot of this generation some recent graduates in the past 10 years and, and younger.

Are siloing themselves off by finding something that they're one little thing that they're really, really, really, really good at call it. Tick tock. And don't get me wrong. There are some of these 23 24 year olds making millions of dollars to do a great job with their product on Tick Tock. That's not what this is about.

That's that's their thing when you're working for a company you're helping build a brand whether it's a small entrepreneur or big intermediate company or even the big fortune 500 you're working on their behalf It is important that you get out of your asylum and you find out how that client's doing You find out how their brand is or is not in alignment.

You ask the brand alignment questions and philip what i've You've asked what I experienced, what I have experienced in two of the marketing firms I've fired. You would think a guy like me could pick one, right? Is that they silo employees or they hire them overseas and that employee has a checklist in front of them on their, let's call it their technology engagement, their social engagement.

They're, they're, they're in one silo of their social engagement. I have found That most of them could give a rat's ass about the other silos or the rest of the rest of the brand They want to check their box. They want to get their thing done and they move on That's fine. I get specialties. Trust me. I get specialization.

We've been doing it for a long long time But if you're gonna specialize and be so highly specialized and really great at something Make sure you pull your head out of the cycle out of the sand And stay in tune with the alignment of that brand because a word or a graphic or a music sound can throw it off And you should know the difference.

I think those are the two biggest issues. We're dealing with it philip.

Philip VanDusen: Yes I think one of the things that you talked about earlier, there's so much here that I wanted to dive into one of the things you talked about earlier was when you were talking to that client and you told him that like the brand story that he was telling you was bullshit, right?

So how do you approach a client and tell them a truth? About what you're seeing with their brand.

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: It's funny you ask it that way, because I think that question, call it a month ago, right? It was a month, a month ago. Yeah, it was on LinkedIn. You know, LinkedIn's got the robots going. Are you an expert? Tell us your answer to one of these questions.

And just for the hell of it. I've dove in a couple of those, right? I'm not doing it anymore, really. But I've dove in a couple of them. And then the one you just asked came up. Oh, if, if your client's not being honest with you, how do you, I mean, you know, that may be where the old school comes in because I'm going to go to lunch with the guy.

I'm going to have a cocktail with the guy. I'm going to have a cup of coffee with the guy. This kind of crap is not done on the phone. It occasionally can be done on a phone, rarely can be done on zoom and never, never, never, never by email. And never never never never never never buy base camp or some product flow software that's not where you get human relations you you mentioned earlier philip humanizing making sure the brand stays human is I would say number three and what's been lost big with technology In branding and that and I blame the agencies.

I don't blame the entrepreneurs they don't know any better. They don't know branding They think branding's a a logo or a baseball cap or a discount you offer on your your linkedin page to your restaurant, whatever I'm talking on average. There's a lot of smart people that know branding know what it is, but brand alignment's unique Even the people in our profession Many of them struggle and say this in front of the book Most marketing professionals don't truly get brand alignment and and it starts at the truth And so I didn't answer that question on linkedin because I I don't think I can without embarrassing myself I, I, I think that is a personal question.

How do you find out if that client's not telling the truth? My number one right hand man called me the other day and said, I just read the pre copy of your book. And he said, I'm just so grateful. He said, it is, it's like something I'm going to hand to every one of my clients and say, let's start here. And he said, you just shared, you just, you just opened up the schmock, you shared, shared the whole dress, the whole deal.

You just lifted up your skirt and you just put the whole thing out there. For people to deal with truth, and he said, one of the most amazing things I learned from you working with you for 13 years, he said, was it was your ability to work outside the meeting, he said, I've learned looking back and most of the great things didn't happen in the meetings, most of the truth, most of the bonding, most of the really brilliant stuff.

Happened on the way into the meeting, on the way out of the meeting, at lunch, at coffee, somewhere else, or somewhere where you took time to go take the man or woman away somewhere, and visit, and have heart to heart. And I think, Phillip, that's missing. I think a lot of that's missing. I know, I know some of the great brand leaders I do know running some big firms.

I know they continue that. I know they, I know they know it's critical whether the rest of their staff gets involved in that or not. Doesn't matter as much as long as the leadership, the person that's driving, you mentioned leadership and brand alignment, as long as the person who's driving that brand alignment is, is one on one with you and share and honest.

It's critical. And so even if the youngster's listening, no, I asked, by the way, we'll just, we'll tweet it and we'll get it out of here. And it's gone. And don't worry about it, man. Dude, we'll, we'll connect. It's just tuck it away. It'll bite you one day. Or you'll make even more money than you're already making because you align your client's brands for them or you align your entrepreneurial brand and you make it make sense.

And that's the thing this whole deal comes back to Philip in the book is that if people say branding, is it art or science? I add a third thing. Is it art, science or common sense? And if I look back over the thousands of projects I've been engaged in over 50 years and I only got to pick one of those. I would take common sense every single

Philip VanDusen: I think that's where your Southern kind of directness shines, you know, I mean, I get that from just talking to you, right?

I get that kind of like going to tell it like it is kind of vibe. And I think that that's what I was trying to get with the question is like when you telling the client, right? Something that you're observing that they're not getting or they're not seeing or they think they're hoodwinking you in some sort of way like you said your client not telling you the secret about something you thought was odd about the company.

That's one of those things where it's difficult to, to prod your client. Cause you don't want to lose them, right? You want to get them as a client. So you don't want to like say, Hey, what you're telling me is bullshit. There's a tactful way. You have to go about that. Obviously. But all right, I want to pivot.

I want to pivot to another thing.

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: Well, let me add one thing before you pivot. Okay. I'm going to call time out before you pivot. Let's see, in my podcast, you came up and said, I'm going to challenge you on that one. I love that approach because I'm going to challenge you on that one. You have to be, I mean, you can't be rude, right?

But you don't always have to be tactful. Sometimes you have to make a point. And I truly believe, I truly, you know, they say you don't really you don't really love something until you're willing to walk away from it. And we always went in with the passion that no matter how much money they were spending or about to spend, or the presentation, that, that.

We love that client. We wanted to, we wanted to immerse ourselves in that brand. And to do that, honestly, we would be willing to lose it. And Philip, we lost a couple, but I will tell you, we probably won 85 plus percent of the presentations we went into competing against other firms because we dealt in truth.

And we got one of a couple of our largest pieces of business in our 20 year history before we sold, we got on comments where we should have been fired. In a normal situation. So I will tell you that I think courage is more important than tact. If you want to stand out from the other branding firms, if you really want to help a business owner make a difference, if you know for a fact that what you're saying is true, if you've done your homework, if you've immersed yourself enough in their brand to earn that business and to know that company well enough that you can speak with clarity.

Now, if you're just yes. That's wrong. But if you know,

Philip VanDusen: then you owe it to I love that that I think that's a great place to tie this up Okay, so no really an amazing amazing point I love that that directness and the clarity and the willingness to walk away in Order to kind of really demonstrate how much you care and I think that that's that's the whole point and that's what we should Be doing as branding people is really caring about our clients and not just delivering some cookie cutter process.

Well, brand on Coleman jr. Thank you so much for coming on brand design master podcast. I really appreciate it. And I'm sure our conversations will continue.

Brandon Coleman, Jr.: I appreciate you and look so forward to it. And the one word you use, Philip, that, that if someone said you get one word to brand professionals in the future, really helpful entrepreneurs.

It would be care. It would be care because if you care, you will make sure the brand's in line, you will get the truth and you will deliver. So care that you brought up is just huge. Thank you for that.

Philip VanDusen: Thanks, Brandon.